Our dirty questions to Baz Luhrmann

Aussie maestro Baz Luhrmann was omnipresent during the third edition of the Red Sea Film International Festival (RSIFF). He took his job as president of the jury very seriously and could be spotted in every screening of the films in competition, held at the impressive Vox cinemas, in Jeddah.

Baz also found time to moderate a talk with fellow Aussie actor and friend Chris Hemsworth, known mainly for his role as a Scandinavian God called Thor, in the Marvel franchise . But that’s another story. Luhrmann’s artistic streak is easily recognisable. He has reinvented the musical genre with glitzy gems like Strictly Ballroom (1992), Moulin Rouge (2001) and his more recently Elvis (2022).

He was also very moved by the films he saw at the RSIFF, especially the ones that focused on women’s rights and personal dramas. He is even considering making his next project in Saudi Arabia. I sat down with Baz, and a small group of international journalists, at the Ritz-Carlton, the heart of the Festival. We discussed why film musicals should resist, his passion for Lawrence of Arabia (David Lean, 1962), and his surprise with the current state of Arabian movies.

You can find out about the movies that Baz and his jury picked by clicking here.

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Duda Leite – In 2021, you said that you wanted to bring Hollywood to Australia. How is that going?

Baz Luhrman – I don’t doubt that was my sentiment. I would never use Hollywood to Australia, maybe I was being flippant. But what I am not flippant about is that, we are a small country and I am devoted to it. And in a million years, if I would have said that I would end up in the Gulf Coast, I would probably say not. I had to make Elvis in Australia, and it was great. My kids were full of love for the environment. And the state money was behind it. The federal government was behind it. And Chris Hemsworth, who has just arrived this morning, lives just down the road. So if the question is: “am I still devoted to it?” Yes. We live around the world. We have a house there. That would be our prior base. Somewhere between there and Paris. (laughs)

DL – During the opening of the Red Sea Film Festivalk you’ve mentioned that you would be available to make a film here.

BL – I was not being fastidious about that. This is also a small country. We make a lot of big movies in Australia. But we make a lot of small films in Australia, like when I did “Strictly Ballroom”. We have a lot of weird, strange small independent movies being made there. But here, when I came out to do my own investigation six months ago, I went to the Film Alula Studios being made here, and this was 6 months ago. They might be finished now. But they were really serious good soundstages. They are looking at the right things at rebates, because they’ve got to compete. It’s a real thing. You can go to Canada and get a rebate. You don’t have to invest a lot of money, you just don’t pay taxes. Just like any other industry, if you bring 100 million dollars in, it’s good for the environment. So, to answer your question: absolutely. I’ve always been interested in the region, ever since as a kid. One of the first films I saw as a kid was Lawrence of Arabia. And since then, I have always been magnetically drawn to this part of the world. My journey started six months ago, it was such an eye opener. Because, when you are outside, your information comes only through clickbait and snapshots. Some of it may be true, but what was so revelatory is when you come here and realize that 75% of the population is under 35 years old. So I met a lot of young female filmmakers. And some of whom had just pitched their films, some of the issues in their movie were irrelevant when they finished the movie. So quick is the change. So you get the energy of these young filmmakers. They want their future. And they’re gonna have it.

DL – It’s true that they are building these studios, but they are not allowed to have unions here. How would you deal with that?

BL – It’s a good question. I’ve made Romeo + Juliet (1996), and it’s my only film that I made outside of Australia. I made that one in Mexico. I would have to jump into the details of this. But if I am going to make a show here – we call them shows – I know I’ll be able to bring that to the table certain requests. What we did in Mexico is that we brought some of the key people to the project, but part of the deal was to work with some local emerging talents. Obviously the crew, and one of the young guys there, ended up having a pretty good career. He won a couple of Oscars. It was Alfonso Cuarón. He used to sit and hang out on the set of Romeo + Juliet. And we were laughing about that. So the word I like to use is cross-fertilisation. Our film wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t the cross-fertilisation between our creatives and our communities. Whenever we are. As far as the union question, that requires further examination, because I really don’t know how that works here. Let’s just wait and see how it goes. They had 35 years without being able to go see a movie. There were no movie theatres here five years ago. Now, I’ve seen movies… When people talk to me about Saudi, and how they see it from outside, I always tell them: go see the movies that I saw. In the last few days, with diverse audiences, from diverse backgrounds. Go see the movies. See how they’re made, see the subject matters. And then come back to me, and I’ll talk to you. The stories answer the questions.

DL – Are you confident that cinema and culture can change things, rather than politics?

BL – Before I came, I really did my investigation. I wasn’t manicured. Sure, people were taking me to places. There was always some trepidation, from being here, I am doubling down 100%. I am 100% sure of how important this festival is. Because in a world where we are being fed by politics, we are absolutely being fed by violent solutions. Storytelling voices humanize them. And what I’ve seen on the screen, is the humanising of things that we are saying intellectually, or politically. But when you see the stories, you see the people. No person’s pain is less than another’s. And I am confident, no wrong world. I am absolutely sure that we have to double down on stories being streaming or film. Let’s say films, because film as an art takes some time to dictate. Particularly the young voices. I’ve seen some stuff, with some similar themes, no matter the genre, and I am like: “hang on, this is a pattern here”. I didn’t know that. And some of the topics are very clear that this is a problem. When you see these human beings, if I say: “a woman”, some of them have these amazing female performances. Amazing. And how these good people, for no fault of their own, lack the ability to solve the simple things. And at the same time, they’re really entertaining. It’s some really good filmmaking. That’s exciting.

DL – Every now and then, people like to say that musicals are dead. And you’ve proved them wrong once again with Elvis. Why do you think musicals are so resilient?

BL – Actually they’re resilient because if you look at them, every period found his style of movies. Even in the 1970s, a period where the New Hollywood was happening, if you look at “Saturday Night Fever” (1977), it’s a shocking movie. There are things in that movie that you would not be able to have in a film today. Shocking! There is language that you would not be able to use today. There is a rape scene that you could not have in a movie today. You would think it’s a movie about disco dancing, actually it’s about this group of macho males, and the toughness of the environment they’re in. And aspiring to get over that and the dancing is part of it. Musicals in the ’70s tended to have some realism about them. Like in “Cabaret” (1972), where all the musical numbers had to be on stage. Every period finds its language. And the thing about musicals is that people think they’re easy to make, and they are incredibly difficult to make. But if they work, they never go away. I did “Moulin Rouge” 20 years ago, and now it has 6 productions around the world in the theater.

DL – This year there were quite a few refreshing Australian movies, like Limbo (Ivan Sen, 2023), and The New Boy (Warwick Thornton, 2023). And a couple of these films deal with the native people of the Western coast. Do you think that the films being made in Australia are changing and facing this part of history?

BL – I just met a new world of faraway downs. It was when I made the movie Australia (2008) many years ago. And I shot 2.5 million of shooting, but I wasn’t unable to finish it the way I wanted, because I was doing in a more epic way the story of an indigenous child. And it was a story warped up in a melodrama fashion. The core of the story were these native children that were forced to be put in mixed races families. That was the center of the story. What was so remarkable, and it was the center of the story, one of the filmmakers that was working in that movie, was Warwick Thorton, who made The New Boy. And a lot of outsiders don’t understand that the issue of this native generation is such a profound guide in the history of our country. And a history not told. And that’s what I thought when I did Australia, and I wanted to do it in a deeper way. [Baz just released a re-edited version of the movie with some extra footage as a TV series].

What is so great is that at that time, there were some indigenous filmmakers, but now, there is a whole new scene. I was recently listening to the soundtracks of all these young indigenous pop stars doing their music. I think it might be a good comparison with the way things are happening here in Saudi. The fact that only a few years ago one of the first heroes of the Saudi cinema was a woman (Haifaa Al-Mansour, director of 2012’s Wadjda), and she had to direct her first movie from inside a car. And the film became a hit. And she’s become an icon. And there is a new generation of women directors, some of them I’ve met. And it’s interesting as female directors are leading the charge in this new scenario. And that’s part of I am calling a Repo effect. I think you can never do enough. But what I think it’s great is a lot of those indigenous first nations directors in Australia, who are friends and whom I know well, they’re just great filmmakers. They are not being locked in.

DL – Haifaa Al Mansour moved to New Zealand. So I guess there are limited opportunities here. And especially for women who are not afraid to speak up.

BL – Very good point. Because, you know, it’s such a schizophrenic thing, I am not sure that is the right word. From one hand, there are all these young female filmmakers, who are a driving force, but who are constrained. Having said that, your point of her moving to New Zealand is a very good one. Because for us, back in the day as Australians, right? We would make a really good movie, like Peter Weir, or Gillian Armstrong, a great example. And then, they would go off to Hollywood. There just wasn’t the scale or the infrastructure for the industry growth to stay in Australia and make a big film. And as we grew, we can now have people like Chris Hemsworth, who can make some of the biggest productions, and live just down the road. It’s gonna take time. I am not sugarcanning the issues. I never had to sit in a Jury and see four films a day, it takes work, but it’s so nourishing. To be blunt, a lot of the films I’ve seen, the issue of women’s rights, and just the ability to do the simple things, things that we would take for granted, it’s dealt with in those films. And what is great is a female story. I can only say I have absolutely no doubt that supporting the Red Sea Film festival and the diversity of their audiences from this environment of the whole area, it’s got to be a good thing, Because certainly politics are not going to be much help.

DL – You mentioned that you have this desire of making a film here, what would it be about?

BL – I didn’t say I have an idea. I’ve come and seen the environment… Could I see myself making a film here? Absolutely I could. But that is a very different issue to what I was saying, that is the ability of anyone – out of the agenda – to tell their story. That’s all it’s been said. I’m not saying it’s done. Neither is the empowerment of the First Nations in Australia. There are huge and massive leaps. There is a lot more to do. More to do. But you’ve got to start somewhere. Instead of not doing nothing.

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Baz Luhrmann is pictured at the top of this interview, image by Daniele Venturelli. He is pictured alongside Duda Leite below, image by Duda Leite.

Our verdict of the 3rd Red Sea International Film Festival

Fot the third consecutive year, DMovies attended what has quickly become a meeting point for filmmakers, industry pundits and movie enthusiasts from every corner of the planet. The Festival took place during 10 days, between November 30th and December 9th at the heart of the coastal city of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. In total, it screened 126 films from 77 countries, and in 47 languages. The extravagant red carpet ceremonies attracted Arab and international stars alike, including Sharon Stone, Catherine Deneuve, Amina Khalil, Diane Kruger, Ranveer Singh, Paz Vega, Johnny Depp, Will Smith, Burak Özçivit, and many others.

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Programming secrets

I asked the Director of International Programming Kaleem Aftab about their programming secrets: “We divide programming into two departments, the Arab programming department and the international one. We talk to each other all the time, and only at the highest level between myself and Antoine Khalife, who’s the director of our Arab programme. Each one of us has their own team. On my team, I have six full-time programmers. Plus, there are the film liaisons we work with who occasionally help because this year we got so many more submissions than previous years. Only African, Arab and Asian films can submit through the online system. Last year through that method we had 400 films coming. And this year we had over 1400! So the number of hours we had with the size of team was probably not enough. So it was good to have a larger support mechanism because it’s very tricky to go through so many films. Plus, we have all of the films playing the film festivals and the films that sales agents send us directly. By the start of September, we have seen everything”.

He goes on to explain how his peer works: “Antoine has a team of four people. They look at the Arab films throughout the year. The Red Sea Fund and the Red Sea Lodge do so much work with either developing Arab film or financing Arab films. We’ve been watching the Arab films cut by cut over the years, so we have a much better footing of what it is. In the field of Arab and Saudi films, there are probably around 1,200 to 1,500 movies made, including shorts”.

I also asked Kaleem what makes an Arab film, and whether a British movie could ever qualify as “Arab”. He responded: “We have 22 Arab countries. It’s on the website which we consider Arab because there’s a lot of there are some vagaries. And then we also consider anyone who has an Arab, African or Asian passport who lives in another country. But the director has to have the passport and the film has to be about the Arab and Asian world.

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Challenging orthodoxies

The programme of the Red Sea International Film Festival is surprisingly audacious and diverse. The most recurring topic is female oppression and empowerment (Amjad Al Rasheed’s Inshallah A Boy, Humaid Alsuwaidi’s Dalma, In Flames, (Zarrar Kahn), and many others). Certain films question the mechanisms of religious oppression, while others even shed a positive light portrayal of LGBT+ characters.

Kaleem and his team picked a very special British film for this year’s edition of the Red Sea. “We’re showing Copa 71 (Rachael Ramsay and James Erskine), which was the first attempt to put on a women’s football tournament. This is the story of women who are saying no to the old powers. It goes into the history of women’s football, when it was banned, and how it was extremely popular in the early 20th century. So I felt that in a country such as Saudi Arabia, a place where women’s rights and gender rights are changing a lot, it would be great not only to bring Copa 71, but also to make it a gala”. A little masterpiece indeed, and an eye-opening movie that needs to be seen in Britain and the Arab world alike.

And Copa 71 isn’t the exception. There is not shortage of female directors at the Red Sea. “This year we have 31 female-led movies”, Kaleem notes.

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Different sensibilities

The Festival boasts a large number of strong Iranian movies, such as The Last Snow (Amirhossein Asgari) and Roxana (Parviz Shahbazi). Iranian cinema has always fascinated me. And it’;s remarkably different from Saudi cinema. Iranian cinema is contemplative and reflexive, while Saudi cinema drinks from the same water as Hollywood, I opined. Kaleem disagrees: “I don’t believe that Saudi cinema drinks from the same water as Hollywood. I think it’s too early to say that. The Red Sea Film Festival has only been going for three years. This is the first time in four decades we’ve been trying to develop a Saudi film culture. Maybe in four or five years we’ll actually see the sensibility of Saudi films“.

He shares my passion for Persian movies: “We all know the values and merits of Iranian cinema, the poetic way that they deal with tricky subjects. Iranian cinema is wonderful, as everybody in the world knows. We were joking as we were watching the films that this could just have an Iranian film festival because there was so many good films submitted. We had to reject so many good films that we loved just because of the sheer weight and volume”.

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The winners and the dirty gems

The big winners were as follows:

Prizes were given a jury presided by Australian filmmaker Baz Lurhmann. He was joined by jury members Joel Kinnaman, Freida Pinto, Amina Khalil, Paz Vega, Hana Alomair and Fatih Akin.

My dirty favourites were the following four films, all awarded our five splats (a filthy genius rating):

  • The heart-ripping Jordanian social-realist drama about faking a pregnancy Inshallah a Boy;
  • The luminescent Iranian rural drama The Last Snow;
  • The sobering British documentary about erasing women’s football from history Copa 71; and
  • The equally elegant and terrifying Emirati exorcism horror Three (Nayla Al Khaja).

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Our coverage

With a little helping hand from American journalist Joshua Bogatin and Brazilian writer Duda Leite, we published a total of 38 pieces this year. This includes five interviews (with Baloji, Rachel Ramsay, Kaouther Ben Hania, Tamer Ruggli, and the Malaysian tigress Amanda Nell Eu), as well as nine republished reviews of films that we watched earlier this year in other festivals. You can read them all by clicking here.

Picture at the top by Victor Fraga. Middle picture is a still from ‘Inshalah a Boy’. The last image is a still from ‘Copa 71’.

Our dirty questions to Baloji

Baloji is one of the most distinctive voices working in visual arts, fashion, music and movies today. His short film/music video Zombies was shown in multiple festivals around the globe, including the São Paulo Short Film Festival and m-v-f- (a music video festival which I curate). The film is a riff on the “zombification” of the youth, and how the lives of young people get sucked in by social media and mobile phones.

Born in Congo and based in Belgium, Baloji showed his debut feature Omen at the 3rd Red Sea International Film Festival (RSIFF), the European country’s submission to the 2024 Oscars. It won the New Voice Award at the Cannes Film Festival (where it was shown at the Un Certain Regard selection). It was in the Official Competition at the 3rd Red Sea Film Festival (RSFF) ,where it won the Best Cinematic Contribution Award. Multimedia exhibition Augurism, which is inspired by Omen, is currently at show in Antwerp.

We sat down to talk to at the the Ritz-Carlton in Jeddah, where the RSIFF takes place. Baloji was impeccably fashionable, wearing a brown male skirt, necklaces, rings, and a gorgeous fedora hat. He had just flown in from Los Angeles, where he was doing promotion for the Oscars. He was a little jet lagged and quite dazzled by the opulence of the Ritz Carlton. Nevertheless, he had a lot to say, and revealed some of the dirty secrets behind his baroque debut. Here is our full conversation. Enjoy!

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Duda Leite – So, you just got here yesterday from Los Angeles. What are your first impressions of Jeddah and the Red Sea Film Festival so far?

Baloji – It’s a mixed feeling. It’s a very strange place. There’s something related to soft power. Everything here is connected to soft power. I’ve just walked into this hotel (the Ritz). It’s very questionable. I feel there is a demonstration of power.

DL – Koffi [Omen‘s protagonist, played by Marc Zinga] is a Congolese man who is living in Belgium, just like you. And his Swalihi name is Zamobolo which means “sorcerer”. And your name, Baloji, also has a similar meaning. Are these autobiographical elements?

B – There is not so much of me in the character of Koffi. Because, just like his mom says: Koffi is a coward. He is afraid and scared of his social assignment. He is feeling some sort of christian guilt. That is why I wanted to mirror Koffi with Paco [Marcel Otete Kabeya], who is also a sorcerer, but who reacts in the opposite way. While Koffi is a coward, Paco says: “if you treat me like a dog, I’ll bite you like a dog”. So it’s interesting that two people having the same assignment, act in a totally different way. I thought that was interesting. Koffi is afraid to play against tradition, speak up his mind, and voice his opinion. He wants to please everybody. He cuts his hair, he wants to pay the money to his father, he wants to do all these things. I think it’s interesting to play with that. I am much closer to the Paco character.

DL – I love the opening sequence. when a woman crosses the screen riding a horse and then stops by a river, puts out her breast and pours a mix of blood and milk into the river. What is the meaning of breastfeeding in the film?

B – For me, breastfeeding is a metaphor for postpartum depression. When you don’t want to have that kid. My idea is that she doesn’t want to have that kid, so she can not breastfeed him, and instead of milk, it’s milk mixed with blood that’s coming out of her. Because she rejects that baby so much. We know people like this that reject their pregnancy, so it was a way for me to talk about that. As Mama Mujila [Yves-Marina Gnahoua] explains in the end, there was a whole process where she had to remove all this milk mixed with blood out of herself. Which is a metaphor of the Augure, which is an oracle. That comes from the Greek times. It has to do with all the birds in the film.That is why there are so many birds in the film. In the Greek times, birds could tell you if it was going to rain, for example. They could see what was going to happen. That is what we call the “Omen”. Or we could call it “déja vu”. Something that we know will happen, but that we have yet to experience. She is in that place and this is why there are so many scarecrows. In that particular place, dreams can not come, because there are no birds. The scarecrows make them go away. And in the end, when the scarecrows are burning, she can finally have access to it. She can finally say: “you know what, I can also have dreams”.

DL – The film has so many levels and different symbols.

B – It’s a lot, I know. But this one is fully loaded.

DL – Which are the other ones?

B – There are a lot, but I think this is one of the most important because she is in this place where she cannot have access to dreams. And there is a moment when she says to Koffi: “I am jealous of you, because you can escape”. Certain people don’t know that they can do that. Because society is so strong that they can make you believe certain situations. For me, Mama Mujila is the main character of the film.

DL – Paco buries his sister Maya. was that scene inspired by the Ghanaian funeral rituals.

B – You mean by the way the coffin is decorated?

DL – Yes, where the coffin is pink and they are all dancing.

B – That was connected to his dress. I wanted the coffin to match his dress. Because his dress is a tribute to his sister’s dress that he kept. He is living in a strange mind set. That is why he and Koffi have a lot in common: they are both considered sorcerers, they both have epileptic attacks, when one is falling, the other is in his bed. So we understand they have something in common. And it’s really crucial that we get that they have this connection between them. But for Paco it is all about the grieving for his sister.

DL – What is the reason for them to have the epileptic attacks? Was that some kind of metaphor about Africa?

B – No, I didn’t go that far (laughs). When somebody has an epileptic attack, people don’t understand, and they think it’s a way to lose themselves. That means that the spirits came over. Not in the film, but in society.

DL – But what about in the film?

B – That’s the connection between them. And that is the reason they are considered sorcerers.

DL – You did the costume design for the movie, alongside Elke Hoste. Could you please tell us more about importance of costume design in the creative process?

B – I come from graffiti. Street art. Graffiti and graphic design. Then I did design on textile, and then I worked on textile fabrics. I became really interested in fabrics. And just like everything else, fabrics tell a story. What people wear says something about them. Something about where you are coming from. And then I met some beautiful costume design and fashion teachers, and they showed me I could do it. If you have an idea on how to create costumes, you can do it. They are just going to help you on how to transform the idea into something palpable. And that’s what I did.

DL – You have an exhibition on display now in Antwerp called Augurism, inspired by the film. What are your next multidisciplinary projects?

B – Actually we are trying to shoot something in April in Inhotim, Brazil. I’m already talking to them. The sooner the better. I really want to do it. The only problem we have is, on December 22nd we’ll know if we’re shortlisted for the Oscars. Then I’ll know more.

DL – How much did your work as a musician inspire you in Omen?

B – You know, I also did the music for this film.

DL – But there was a different name on the credits.

B – There was a composer, but we were not happy with what she did. But for legal reasons, her name is in the credits. But I did the music.

DL – But how did working as a musician help you to. create the structure of the film?

B – It influences a lot. It helped me create all the different layers. You enter one song for the beats. And then you pay attention to the lyrics. That means you can enjoy all the colours, and all the style, the aesthetics, but then you can also have different layers for the content. For the social point-of-view, for the political point0-of-view. And you can have a different approach to it. It doesn’t mean that you’re hiding them, it just means you have different layers to understand situations – that’s what music teached me.

DL – This is a very African movie, but it is representing Belgium in the Oscars. How does that feel for you?

B – It represents Belgium, but technically it’s a Congolese film. I am Congolese. But this is a huge step for the Belgium commission, which selects which films are going to represent the country. With their colonial past, this is something very important that they did. It’s my first film, so it was a big opportunity for me. I couldn’t say no. Also, there is no Congolese Oscar submission. This means that we are not eligible for an Oscar. It doesn’t exist. So we have to wait to create a committee, until we are eligible. And I had my first investor in Belgium. I could not say no. That’s very different from Brazil and the rest of South America. That is why you Brazilians have more freedom in the films that you’re making. African cinema depends on European funding, mostly French. If you don’t tell a narrative that pleases French people, you don’t have money. It’s as simple as that. You can’t make your film. And the French keep on telling me no, this is not cinema. They kept on telling me no. That was basically the only work they had for me: no. So I’ve learned from this. It’s a very small budget film, because only Belgium and the Netherlands said yes. Otherwise, the film would not exist and I’d not be here talking to you.