Baloji is one of the most distinctive voices working in visual arts, fashion, music and movies today. His short film/music video Zombies was shown in multiple festivals around the globe, including the São Paulo Short Film Festival and m-v-f- (a music video festival which I curate). The film is a riff on the “zombification” of the youth, and how the lives of young people get sucked in by social media and mobile phones.

Born in Congo and based in Belgium, Baloji showed his debut feature Omen at the 3rd Red Sea International Film Festival (RSIFF), the European country’s submission to the 2024 Oscars. It won the New Voice Award at the Cannes Film Festival (where it was shown at the Un Certain Regard selection). It was in the Official Competition at the 3rd Red Sea Film Festival (RSFF) ,where it won the Best Cinematic Contribution Award. Multimedia exhibition Augurism, which is inspired by Omen, is currently at show in Antwerp.

We sat down to talk to at the the Ritz-Carlton in Jeddah, where the RSIFF takes place. Baloji was impeccably fashionable, wearing a brown male skirt, necklaces, rings, and a gorgeous fedora hat. He had just flown in from Los Angeles, where he was doing promotion for the Oscars. He was a little jet lagged and quite dazzled by the opulence of the Ritz Carlton. Nevertheless, he had a lot to say, and revealed some of the dirty secrets behind his baroque debut. Here is our full conversation. Enjoy!

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Duda Leite – So, you just got here yesterday from Los Angeles. What are your first impressions of Jeddah and the Red Sea Film Festival so far?

Baloji – It’s a mixed feeling. It’s a very strange place. There’s something related to soft power. Everything here is connected to soft power. I’ve just walked into this hotel (the Ritz). It’s very questionable. I feel there is a demonstration of power.

DL – Koffi [Omen‘s protagonist, played by Marc Zinga] is a Congolese man who is living in Belgium, just like you. And his Swalihi name is Zamobolo which means “sorcerer”. And your name, Baloji, also has a similar meaning. Are these autobiographical elements?

B – There is not so much of me in the character of Koffi. Because, just like his mom says: Koffi is a coward. He is afraid and scared of his social assignment. He is feeling some sort of christian guilt. That is why I wanted to mirror Koffi with Paco [Marcel Otete Kabeya], who is also a sorcerer, but who reacts in the opposite way. While Koffi is a coward, Paco says: “if you treat me like a dog, I’ll bite you like a dog”. So it’s interesting that two people having the same assignment, act in a totally different way. I thought that was interesting. Koffi is afraid to play against tradition, speak up his mind, and voice his opinion. He wants to please everybody. He cuts his hair, he wants to pay the money to his father, he wants to do all these things. I think it’s interesting to play with that. I am much closer to the Paco character.

DL – I love the opening sequence. when a woman crosses the screen riding a horse and then stops by a river, puts out her breast and pours a mix of blood and milk into the river. What is the meaning of breastfeeding in the film?

B – For me, breastfeeding is a metaphor for postpartum depression. When you don’t want to have that kid. My idea is that she doesn’t want to have that kid, so she can not breastfeed him, and instead of milk, it’s milk mixed with blood that’s coming out of her. Because she rejects that baby so much. We know people like this that reject their pregnancy, so it was a way for me to talk about that. As Mama Mujila [Yves-Marina Gnahoua] explains in the end, there was a whole process where she had to remove all this milk mixed with blood out of herself. Which is a metaphor of the Augure, which is an oracle. That comes from the Greek times. It has to do with all the birds in the film.That is why there are so many birds in the film. In the Greek times, birds could tell you if it was going to rain, for example. They could see what was going to happen. That is what we call the “Omen”. Or we could call it “déja vu”. Something that we know will happen, but that we have yet to experience. She is in that place and this is why there are so many scarecrows. In that particular place, dreams can not come, because there are no birds. The scarecrows make them go away. And in the end, when the scarecrows are burning, she can finally have access to it. She can finally say: “you know what, I can also have dreams”.

DL – The film has so many levels and different symbols.

B – It’s a lot, I know. But this one is fully loaded.

DL – Which are the other ones?

B – There are a lot, but I think this is one of the most important because she is in this place where she cannot have access to dreams. And there is a moment when she says to Koffi: “I am jealous of you, because you can escape”. Certain people don’t know that they can do that. Because society is so strong that they can make you believe certain situations. For me, Mama Mujila is the main character of the film.

DL – Paco buries his sister Maya. was that scene inspired by the Ghanaian funeral rituals.

B – You mean by the way the coffin is decorated?

DL – Yes, where the coffin is pink and they are all dancing.

B – That was connected to his dress. I wanted the coffin to match his dress. Because his dress is a tribute to his sister’s dress that he kept. He is living in a strange mind set. That is why he and Koffi have a lot in common: they are both considered sorcerers, they both have epileptic attacks, when one is falling, the other is in his bed. So we understand they have something in common. And it’s really crucial that we get that they have this connection between them. But for Paco it is all about the grieving for his sister.

DL – What is the reason for them to have the epileptic attacks? Was that some kind of metaphor about Africa?

B – No, I didn’t go that far (laughs). When somebody has an epileptic attack, people don’t understand, and they think it’s a way to lose themselves. That means that the spirits came over. Not in the film, but in society.

DL – But what about in the film?

B – That’s the connection between them. And that is the reason they are considered sorcerers.

DL – You did the costume design for the movie, alongside Elke Hoste. Could you please tell us more about importance of costume design in the creative process?

B – I come from graffiti. Street art. Graffiti and graphic design. Then I did design on textile, and then I worked on textile fabrics. I became really interested in fabrics. And just like everything else, fabrics tell a story. What people wear says something about them. Something about where you are coming from. And then I met some beautiful costume design and fashion teachers, and they showed me I could do it. If you have an idea on how to create costumes, you can do it. They are just going to help you on how to transform the idea into something palpable. And that’s what I did.

DL – You have an exhibition on display now in Antwerp called Augurism, inspired by the film. What are your next multidisciplinary projects?

B – Actually we are trying to shoot something in April in Inhotim, Brazil. I’m already talking to them. The sooner the better. I really want to do it. The only problem we have is, on December 22nd we’ll know if we’re shortlisted for the Oscars. Then I’ll know more.

DL – How much did your work as a musician inspire you in Omen?

B – You know, I also did the music for this film.

DL – But there was a different name on the credits.

B – There was a composer, but we were not happy with what she did. But for legal reasons, her name is in the credits. But I did the music.

DL – But how did working as a musician help you to. create the structure of the film?

B – It influences a lot. It helped me create all the different layers. You enter one song for the beats. And then you pay attention to the lyrics. That means you can enjoy all the colours, and all the style, the aesthetics, but then you can also have different layers for the content. For the social point-of-view, for the political point0-of-view. And you can have a different approach to it. It doesn’t mean that you’re hiding them, it just means you have different layers to understand situations – that’s what music teached me.

DL – This is a very African movie, but it is representing Belgium in the Oscars. How does that feel for you?

B – It represents Belgium, but technically it’s a Congolese film. I am Congolese. But this is a huge step for the Belgium commission, which selects which films are going to represent the country. With their colonial past, this is something very important that they did. It’s my first film, so it was a big opportunity for me. I couldn’t say no. Also, there is no Congolese Oscar submission. This means that we are not eligible for an Oscar. It doesn’t exist. So we have to wait to create a committee, until we are eligible. And I had my first investor in Belgium. I could not say no. That’s very different from Brazil and the rest of South America. That is why you Brazilians have more freedom in the films that you’re making. African cinema depends on European funding, mostly French. If you don’t tell a narrative that pleases French people, you don’t have money. It’s as simple as that. You can’t make your film. And the French keep on telling me no, this is not cinema. They kept on telling me no. That was basically the only work they had for me: no. So I’ve learned from this. It’s a very small budget film, because only Belgium and the Netherlands said yes. Otherwise, the film would not exist and I’d not be here talking to you.